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Post by hermit on Dec 16, 2018 8:17:15 GMT -6
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Post by oilsooner on Dec 16, 2018 16:51:04 GMT -6
245 years ago today, the Boston Tea Party occurred. Dec 16, 1773 The libs say fascism akin to WWII has made its way to American shores. The trumpers and some conservatives say the government has taken power away from the people, akin to England shortly before we overthrew them. We’re watching the same screen, but two completely different movies...interesting times.
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Post by hermit on Dec 16, 2018 18:38:14 GMT -6
IDK, I see no correlation in 1776 and today.
What I see now is a challenge to our economic system ............. past that, I don't really give a shit. Socialism has to be defeated, once again.
IN 1940, polling said 80% of US citizens wanted no part of another European war. WW I was still fresh on the publics mind. The country was very isolationist. But a group of elites around FDR, knew that we had no choice but to get into the war in Europe. If we allowed Britain to fall, then we would lose our ability to attack the European continent, and we would eventually be fighing the Nazi's on our southern border. They had to get to the country to follow.
That group of elites could easily be compared to the globalists of today, who despise isoloationism. But the facts are, in 1940, they were right.
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Post by hermit on Dec 16, 2018 18:50:52 GMT -6
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Post by hermit on Dec 16, 2018 19:20:18 GMT -6
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Post by kcrufnek on Dec 16, 2018 23:27:41 GMT -6
I thought this was about Stinger's birthday
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Post by stinger1066 on Dec 17, 2018 6:22:54 GMT -6
IDK, I see no correlation in 1776 and today. What I see now is a challenge to our economic system ............. past that, I don't really give a shit. Socialism has to be defeated, once again. IN 1940, polling said 80% of US citizens wanted no part of another European war. WW I was still fresh on the publics mind. The country was very isolationist. But a group of elites around FDR, knew that we had no choice but to get into the war in Europe. If we allowed Britain to fall, then we would lose our ability to attack the European continent, and we would eventually be fighing the Nazi's on our southern border. They had to get to the country to follow. That group of elites could easily be compared to the globalists of today, who despise isoloationism. But the facts are, in 1940, they were right. Socialism won't be defeated. Socialism is actually promoted by so called "fiscal conservatives" when the going gets tough. Case in point - the 2008 bailouts. Socialism at its finest. And it will happen again.
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Post by hermit on Dec 17, 2018 6:31:51 GMT -6
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Post by hermit on Dec 17, 2018 7:22:48 GMT -6
These fellas were just beginning six months of misery. They would be put on " 40 and 8 " box cars and moved around all over Germany for the next few weeks, as the Nazis had no place to put them. They would go from POW camp to camp, and get turned down due to no room. The box cars were crowded , sometimes only room to stand, with a " honey pot " in the middle for bodily functions. They got very little food or water. Eventually , they would end up in Stalag 7 in Moosberg, Germany. It was a Stalag designed to hold 10,000 POW's and by March 1945, it had over 100,000 POW's. Disease was rampant.
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Post by oilsooner on Dec 17, 2018 9:04:32 GMT -6
IDK, I see no correlation in 1776 and today.What I see now is a challenge to our economic system ............. past that, I don't really give a shit. Socialism has to be defeated, once again.IN 1940, polling said 80% of US citizens wanted no part of another European war. WW I was still fresh on the publics mind. The country was very isolationist. But a group of elites around FDR, knew that we had no choice but to get into the war in Europe. If we allowed Britain to fall, then we would lose our ability to attack the European continent, and we would eventually be fighing the Nazi's on our southern border. They had to get to the country to follow. That group of elites could easily be compared to the globalists of today, who despise isoloationism. But the facts are, in 1940, they were right. I dont want to derail the thread, but I disagree with the bolded, at least as far as the influence the average person has on government policy. We could start an entire thread on that second sentence. Anyway, to the thread, I dont know a ton about WWII, but wasnt Pearl Harbor the tipping point which changed public sentiment towards to war? Not sure how close we were to going to war in Europe in late 1940, but I know we had done a pretty good job of staying out of it directly, at least until we were attacked. Wasnt our "freshness" the tide that changed the momentum of the war, given that France, England, and all of Western Europe were basically beaten into submission by Hitler by this time? We come in, fresh troops and excellent tech, both of which we were willing to throw into the meat grinder in places like Normandy, and the Germans simply have no answer to that, nor the inspiration it provided to those in Europe who had nearly given up (even England was telling Churchill to give in to Hitler, which is why he went to France to call them bitches for contemplating surrender).
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Post by hermit on Dec 17, 2018 9:38:49 GMT -6
Lend lease had gotten us into the war in 1941. Without the American public's knowledge, FDR was using USN destroyers to escort convoys across the Atlantic in late 41 with orders to attack U-Boats on sight. So we were already fighting the Battle of the Atlantic before Pearl.
Pearl got us into the Pacific war and got the public behind the Pacific war, but three days after Pearl , since he had entered a pact with Japan, Hitler declared war on the USA, stupidly, and that got us into the Euro war, like it or not.
It was the Russians who defeated Germany with their blood. It was our manufacturing capability that armed the Allies. But the war was really fought on the Eastern Front. Soviets lost 24 million people, 16 million of which were military. We lost 405,000 military and six civilian death.
Stalin pressed constantly for the UK and USA to open another front, as the Soviets were bleeding large numbers. That was attempted in Italy, but Italy is no place to fight a war. The mountain ranges in northern Italy provide excellent defensive positions. Germans had set up line after line of defenses that required a small number of troops yet were extremely difficult and costly for the Allies to get through.
Some Brit historians today, say the war was over when Hitler invaded Russia in June 1941. Once they failed to take the oil fields in southern Russia , near the Caucasus, then Germany did not have the resources to win the war. After that, and Germany's defeat at Stalingrad, it was matter of time. They say without USA entering, Russia would've eventually defeated Germany, it would've just taken a few more years. What we did, was prevent Stalin from taking all of Western Europe. Without us, France, Belgium, the Netherlands.. et al ... would've become part of the USSR .
The Allies were late to open a second front at Normandy, but the air war over German skies weakened them much. It was USAAF daylight bombing that forced Germany to devote almost the entire Luftwaffe and much of their great 88 mm flak guns, to protecting the homeland. Russians did not have to fight an airwar. And Hitlers minister of war manufacturing, Albert Speer, said after the war there were 10,000 88's pointed to German skies that could've been pointed at Russian tanks. IMO, historians tend to pass over the airwar, they don't give it its due. Without the US 8th AF neutralizing the Luftwaffe, Normandy never happens. We could not invade the Continent without control of the skies.
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Post by oilsooner on Dec 17, 2018 14:48:58 GMT -6
The Luftwaffe was running roughshod over the entirety of Europe before we came along. Absolutely agree air superiority was a game changer, and one of the reasons I advocate for the worlds largest military. I’m a fan of the walk softly, carry a big stick ideology. I’d prefer a military at least twice the size of our nearest competitor, if only to be used as a deterrent. Def agree Russia was a game changer in the ground war, and Hilters stupid march on St Petersburg pretty much sealed his fate. Turning Berlin into a pile of rubble helped a lot as well. Thanks goes to us on that one. Also, weren’t we arming the allies via passenger vessels before 1941? I think Hitler even caught on and sank some of them? I think we were just in it for the money at that point, then Pearl, then it’s time to take out the source bc now we’re in it to win it. Not saying any of that goes against the reasons you listed, just adding to it. EDIT: Just saw this applicable story on FOX: US unable to defend against Russian and Chinese hypersonic weapons, report warns
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Post by oilsooner on Dec 17, 2018 14:57:25 GMT -6
IDK, I see no correlation in 1776 and today. What I see now is a challenge to our economic system ............. past that, I don't really give a shit. Socialism has to be defeated, once again. IN 1940, polling said 80% of US citizens wanted no part of another European war. WW I was still fresh on the publics mind. The country was very isolationist. But a group of elites around FDR, knew that we had no choice but to get into the war in Europe. If we allowed Britain to fall, then we would lose our ability to attack the European continent, and we would eventually be fighing the Nazi's on our southern border. They had to get to the country to follow. That group of elites could easily be compared to the globalists of today, who despise isoloationism. But the facts are, in 1940, they were right. Socialism won't be defeated. Socialism is actually promoted by so called "fiscal conservatives" when the going gets tough. Case in point - the 2008 bailouts. Socialism at its finest. And it will happen again. Socialism could be defeated. It needs to be defeated. That said, I predict we become overtly socialist, as a country, before that happens. Socialism will wreck the country, just as it does everywhere it’s implemented. As a people, we continue to get fucked by the “elite.” Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
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Post by hermit on Dec 17, 2018 16:04:35 GMT -6
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Post by hermit on Dec 17, 2018 16:11:07 GMT -6
This pic makes the rounds every year at this time. I hate it. Can't get used it. I find it disturbing. I see a lot of pics of dead US soldiers, but this one is different. The damn Nazi's have killed them are looting their bodies ...
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Post by oilsooner on Dec 17, 2018 16:44:55 GMT -6
This pic makes the rounds every year at this time. I hate it. Can't get used it. I find it disturbing. I see a lot of pics of dead US soldiers, but this one is different. The damn Nazi's have killed them are looting their bodies ... Yeah, that’s rough, but pretty common. Gathering intel off fallen opposition is key to winning future fights, as I’m sure you know. Fuckin Nazi pukes doing it doesn’t make it right though. I agree with that for sure.
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Post by hermit on Dec 17, 2018 17:21:33 GMT -6
This pic makes the rounds every year at this time. I hate it. Can't get used it. I find it disturbing. I see a lot of pics of dead US soldiers, but this one is different. The damn Nazi's have killed them are looting their bodies ... Yeah, that’s rough, but pretty common. Gathering intel off fallen opposition is key to winning future fights, as I’m sure you know. Fuckin Nazi pukes doing it doesn’t make it right though. I agree with that for sure. Wasn't intel, they wanted American boots cuz our's was better, they wanted American cigarettes and c rations. If they were captured wearing American boots, it was all over for them.
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Post by soonerbounce13 on Dec 17, 2018 19:21:39 GMT -6
IDK, I see no correlation in 1776 and today. What I see now is a challenge to our economic system ............. past that, I don't really give a shit. Socialism has to be defeated, once again. IN 1940, polling said 80% of US citizens wanted no part of another European war. WW I was still fresh on the publics mind. The country was very isolationist. But a group of elites around FDR, knew that we had no choice but to get into the war in Europe. If we allowed Britain to fall, then we would lose our ability to attack the European continent, and we would eventually be fighing the Nazi's on our southern border. They had to get to the country to follow. That group of elites could easily be compared to the globalists of today, who despise isoloationism. But the facts are, in 1940, they were right. Socialism won't be defeated. Socialism is actually promoted by so called "fiscal conservatives" when the going gets tough. Case in point - the 2008 bailouts. Socialism at its finest. And it will happen again. Not really
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Post by kcrufnek on Dec 17, 2018 19:27:51 GMT -6
This pic makes the rounds every year at this time. I hate it. Can't get used it. I find it disturbing. I see a lot of pics of dead US soldiers, but this one is different. The damn Nazi's have killed them are looting their bodies ... This has always happened. Many times they needed their boots, socks, gloves, etc.
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Post by hermit on Dec 18, 2018 8:08:04 GMT -6
IDK, I see no correlation in 1776 and today.What I see now is a challenge to our economic system ............. past that, I don't really give a shit. Socialism has to be defeated, once again.IN 1940, polling said 80% of US citizens wanted no part of another European war. WW I was still fresh on the publics mind. The country was very isolationist. But a group of elites around FDR, knew that we had no choice but to get into the war in Europe. If we allowed Britain to fall, then we would lose our ability to attack the European continent, and we would eventually be fighing the Nazi's on our southern border. They had to get to the country to follow. That group of elites could easily be compared to the globalists of today, who despise isoloationism. But the facts are, in 1940, they were right. I dont want to derail the thread, but I disagree with the bolded, at least as far as the influence the average person has on government policy. We could start an entire thread on that second sentence. Anyway, to the thread, I dont know a ton about WWII, but wasnt Pearl Harbor the tipping point which changed public sentiment towards to war? Not sure how close we were to going to war in Europe in late 1940, but I know we had done a pretty good job of staying out of it directly, at least until we were attacked. Wasnt our "freshness" the tide that changed the momentum of the war, given that France, England, and all of Western Europe were basically beaten into submission by Hitler by this time? We come in, fresh troops and excellent tech, both of which we were willing to throw into the meat grinder in places like Normandy, and the Germans simply have no answer to that, nor the inspiration it provided to those in Europe who had nearly given up (even England was telling Churchill to give in to Hitler, which is why he went to France to call them bitches for contemplating surrender). Something else here I missed, the Brits provided much of the tech breakthroughs.
They captured a U-Boat early on, either 1940 or 41, and with it they got the German's Enigma machine. Enigma translated their coded messages. The Brits cracked the Enigma code and from that point on, were able to intercept all of the Nazi's orders to their U-Boats. It turned the tide in Battle of Atlantic, which IMO was maybe the most important battle of the war.
They also pioneered radar and were far more advanced than anyone else. It mostly came from defending the UK from air attack. But they also developed radar that could operate from a plane, it identified ground features and helped identify targets in their night time bombing and through cloud cover. It was also used by the US 8th AF in B-17's. I believe this same radar tech went to all allied Navys . I know air patrols for U-Boats used this tech to find surfaced U-Boats at night. The Germans never wised up because they did not think it was possible to have radar in planes.
And their Merlin Rolls Royce engine was the final piece that made the P-51 Mustang the plane that changed the war. Early on, American engineers who designed the P-51 used a Packard engine, but that engine had trouble at high altitudes. The Brits got hold of some P-51's and installed the Merlin engine, which was the coup de grace. It made that plane great in every way.
Brits were really good at intelligence, they had great networks for collecting info.
Brits lost 350,000 dead, with 100,000 of that civilian. Which is lower than our military deaths, but they were also 1/4 the size of the US. In the ground war, they also fought more cautiously, primarily because they did not have the numbers to lose many.
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Post by stinger1066 on Dec 19, 2018 5:27:27 GMT -6
I dont want to derail the thread, but I disagree with the bolded, at least as far as the influence the average person has on government policy. We could start an entire thread on that second sentence. Anyway, to the thread, I dont know a ton about WWII, but wasnt Pearl Harbor the tipping point which changed public sentiment towards to war? Not sure how close we were to going to war in Europe in late 1940, but I know we had done a pretty good job of staying out of it directly, at least until we were attacked. Wasnt our "freshness" the tide that changed the momentum of the war, given that France, England, and all of Western Europe were basically beaten into submission by Hitler by this time? We come in, fresh troops and excellent tech, both of which we were willing to throw into the meat grinder in places like Normandy, and the Germans simply have no answer to that, nor the inspiration it provided to those in Europe who had nearly given up (even England was telling Churchill to give in to Hitler, which is why he went to France to call them bitches for contemplating surrender). Something else here I missed, the Brits provided much of the tech breakthroughs.
They captured a U-Boat early on, either 1940 or 41, and with it they got the German's Enigma machine. Enigma translated their coded messages. The Brits cracked the Enigma code and from that point on, were able to intercept all of the Nazi's orders to their U-Boats. It turned the tide in Battle of Atlantic, which IMO was maybe the most important battle of the war.
They also pioneered radar and were far more advanced than anyone else. It mostly came from defending the UK from air attack. But they also developed radar that could operate from a plane, it identified ground features and helped identify targets in their night time bombing and through cloud cover. It was also used by the US 8th AF in B-17's. I believe this same radar tech went to all allied Navys . I know air patrols for U-Boats used this tech to find surfaced U-Boats at night. The Germans never wised up because they did not think it was possible to have radar in planes.
And their Merlin Rolls Royce engine was the final piece that made the P-51 Mustang the plane that changed the war. Early on, American engineers who designed the P-51 used a Packard engine, but that engine had trouble at high altitudes. The Brits got hold of some P-51's and installed the Merlin engine, which was the coup de grace. It made that plane great in every way.
Brits were really good at intelligence, they had great networks for collecting info.
Brits lost 350,000 dead, with 100,000 of that civilian. Which is lower than our military deaths, but they were also 1/4 the size of the US. In the ground war, they also fought more cautiously, primarily because they did not have the numbers to lose many.
My father worked at a Roll Royce engine manufacturing plant in Coventry that was bombed by the Germans. He was only 17, so too young to join the military, but he had worked for Rolls since he was 14. They used the engines that were sitting on mounts as bomb shelters. A bomb exploded on the roof and he took a piece of shrapnel in his left elbow. Had to have some muscle tissue removed. He joined the RAF right when the war ended and spent a lot of time in North Africa and Italy before he went back to Rolls Royse. Rolls got a contract to sell engines to American Airlines, which is how he ended up in Tulsa. American hired him to set up the repair shop for the Rolls engines they were buying.
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Post by hermit on Dec 19, 2018 8:24:10 GMT -6
Most of the Merlins were eventually manufactured by Packard in the States. In the UK , they were hand built and Packard applied USA mass production techniques, but still built to Rolls Royce specs.
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Post by hermit on Dec 19, 2018 9:34:22 GMT -6
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Post by hermit on Dec 19, 2018 12:40:33 GMT -6
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Post by hermit on Dec 20, 2018 6:06:59 GMT -6
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Post by oilsooner on Dec 20, 2018 8:27:23 GMT -6
You reccomend any good WWII documentaries? I am about to have some time off, so I might look around for one. You know, while I smoke some meats.
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Post by hermit on Dec 20, 2018 9:01:52 GMT -6
That's good timing I just found an American historian this week, who has a book out " The Second World Wars " , name is Victor Davis Hansen. He could be described as an academic intellectual because he spent most of his life teaching on college campuses. But he's also a conservative political commentator, who will have a book released in March called " The Case for Trump " . I found an article by him this week , and I began finding out more about him and discovered he's a respected WW II historian. This really interests me cuz bout all I've read are Brit historians. Hansen is around my age, his Dad flew in B-29's over Japan, he lives on his farm near Fresno, CA .........this is a person who I really want to hear his views on WW II. The article where I found him, is this The Globalist Mindset: They Hate YouFrom there I found his new book, which I ordered yesterday from Amazon. Its a behemoth, 750 someodd pages. That will be a project. But I also found some stuff on YouTube that I liked. He's doing an on-line course , the first lecture here, which is optional The Stakes of World War IIThen there's more on YouTube ...........the second lecture on the air war , which I watched yesterday and really enjoyed And this lecture at Colorado Univ was good
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Post by hermit on Dec 20, 2018 9:04:32 GMT -6
And here's his political commentary, with Mark Levin
His view on his home state
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Post by hermit on Dec 20, 2018 9:18:36 GMT -6
This is the one I've been waiting on since the concept was announced in 2013. A new HBO series, along the lines of " Band of Brothers " and " The Pacific " , created by Spielberg and Hanks. Looks like they will start filming 2019, and will air in 2020 or 2021. Which btw, both BOB and Pacific are on Amazon Prime Video for free, they're always a good watch , no matter how many times I've seen them Masters of the Air
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Post by hermit on Dec 20, 2018 10:00:46 GMT -6
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